Adam, we chose where we get our information. Many have not had an education in how to analyze sources and think critically. This is why attacks on education are so dangerous.
If you believe as we do that MAGA fails without FOX and that destroying honest media like PBS makes it even worse defund the FOX rage and hate machine.
Eviscerate FOX with an indirect strategy that works fast. Deny FOX ad $ by denying the ad buying company CEO and execs bonuses. For example Home Depot. Boycott them for a full fiscal quarter and maybe more while keeping Wall Street analysts apprised. Get all on line influencers to post every day for the entire time ending every post every day with “Don’t forget - boycott Home Depot, they fund the FOX rage and hate machine.” See how fast CEO’s stop buying ads - do only ONE brand - do it implacably for an entire fiscal quarter. See how quickly you become the new sheriff in town and how fast other CEO’s quit buying ads. See how fast FOX changes content. All they care about is $. Oh - and next generation FOX CEO will be a decent human being if you do this.
Execution details matter. Talk to me. See Target, Bud Light and Tesla for examples. Companies are people, not paper. Make it personal.
This is very smart analysis...and points to the fragmented nature of the opposition to Trump and MAGA. Somehow critical mass must be mobilized and applied more strategically. Fewer, but much bigger, protests and marches. Fewer, but much more focused and sustained boycotts on brands that are enabling this nightmare. I fear that it's the absence of a single, charismatic opposition leader to consolidate these sorts of efforts that is preventing us from getting more traction.
Thanks Jordan. You are exactly right. We need a dynamic coordinator who will help our major influencers to achieve what mass action can do strategically. It’s utterly disappointing that the DNC isn’t that organization.
I was just thinking the same thing. MAGA has access to all the same information as everyone else. They CHOOSE not to pay attention.
I had offered people sources - credible, verified, reputable sources - many times, and they rejected them because it disagreed with their narrative. I heard phrases like, "I am not interested in your nonsense data!" and "Who cares what these woke scientists say?" and "Fake news!" and "Libtard media!" a lot of times. The information was offered to them on a silver platter - and they chose to reject it.
That is a choice. A conscious choice. It's not because they are locked up somewhere in the tower without any other means to inform themselves. They CHOOSE not to.
Not only that - but they have zero problem with something, as long as it causes other people to suffer, but leaves them unscathed. They only pause and start paying attention when something happens to them. They knew trans kids were going to suffer, they knew immigrants were going to suffer, they knew women denied reproductive care were going to suffer - they were fine with it. When this was pointed out to them, they said, "Serves them right!" Nobody forced them to say that. Nobody forced them to think that. That's on them. So now, suddenly, they are having problems with Trump's policies, and they care? That doesn't make them victims - that makes them selfish. Because this means that, had nothing happened to them, personally, they would have continued being alright with the suffering of other people.
Just so, Maria. Trump knows a secret about people. He calls out to the beast in each person and some of those beasts answer, "YES!". Jung saw this same phenomenon in the lead up to WWII.
My maternal grandmother was a Holocaust survivor - she and her elder brother the only ones to survive out of a family of eight. Two more grandparents survived the Siege of Leningrad - the horrific famine. Those who initiated both also said, "We didn't know" and "we were just following orders".
Later, growing up Soviet, I was constantly bullied and beaten because I was a product of a multi-national family - not a Russian national. The children had an excuse - they were children and learned this from their parents. But what was their parents' excuse to teach them this behavior? Yeah... they too said they didn't know and this was just a joke... That is why I am skeptical.
Yes... Which means... the THINKING is already there. Their mind is already in that state. So, they go for something that works with what they already believe.
Exactly, Maria. Once one is deeply entrenched in their beliefs (usually a combination of the righteousness of their beliefs and the scorn of those who believe differently.) At this point is too easy to just look for and listen to those who will confirm your own bias. This is a vulnerability that all of us have when deciding what we believe to be right. However, there's been a significantly more concentrated effort on the right-wing media to exploit this and the consequences are what we are the deep divisions that result in violence.
Maria, I spent time in the Soviet Union and in the post-Soviet countries as well. You’ll remember one of Tolstoy’s short stories (I think it was his) about the sinful, self-centered peasant who did something virtuous (I don’t remember what), was visited by God and told he would be rewarded by being granted just one wish. “But remember,” says God, “whatever you wish for I will give to your neighbor double.”
The twisted peasant thinks for a minute, then finally says: “put out one of my eyes.”
The world is filled with MAGAS — those who cannot stand the idea of the “other” succeeding, viewing life as nothing but a brutish zero-sum game in which they must be on top, demanding their neighbors be blinded so they can be better.
I remember my many Russian, Jewish, Ukrainian, Armenian friends. They were forbidden to read information outside that Soviet bubble. Fox News addicts have a choice to read the New York Times — or read anything or travel anywhere they want, yet they choose not to do it. This I can never get, never sympathize with.
It wasn't written by Tolstoy - it was a folk tale he recorded. But yes, it's very much like that with MAGA.
And yes, you are correct - we struggled all the time with the propaganda and lack of information from the outside. The brain-washing was in full swing. The grooming of children was commonplace. And yet... even then... people made their choices.
The reason I know that was because my parents were among the dissident intellectuals. They asked me regularly what I was taught at school and then told me why it may not have been true. They used whatever connections they had to get blacklisted books and distribute them. I remember this one time when one of the BARELY legal magazines published "The Master and Margarita" - chapter by chapter. My maternal grandfather - a highly decorated WWII veteran - subscribed to the magazine because we knew he would be above suspicion due to his reputation. He then collected all the issues and extracted the pages with the chapters. Then passed them on to my mild, god-fearing paternal grandmother who had a typewriter and used to be a professional typist. She used the pages from the magazine to make multiple copies of the book. Then the finished copies went back to grandpa, who had learned book binding and bound them into volumes with discreet-looking covers to pas on to people who wanted them. This kind of thing went on for YEARS.
Did we know all of the truth? No. But did we question our reality? Yes. It was a choice. There is always a choice.
I’ve seen this phenomenon among my Republican, specifically, friends. Exactly where they get their information puzzles me because it’s so limited, so narrow. You’re right Maria; they do have a choice to pursue information, learn about issues, but instead I think they just hear (only) what they want and have no curiosity about anything more. Our minds work differently.
If you believe as we do that MAGA fails without FOX and that destroying honest media like PBS makes it even worse defund the FOX rage and hate machine.
Eviscerate FOX with an indirect strategy that works fast. Deny FOX ad $ by denying the ad buying company CEO and execs bonuses. For example Home Depot. Boycott them for a full fiscal quarter and maybe more while keeping Wall Street analysts apprised. Get all on line influencers to post every day for the entire time ending every post every day with “Don’t forget - boycott Home Depot, they fund the FOX rage and hate machine.” See how fast CEO’s stop buying ads - do only ONE brand - do it implacably for an entire fiscal quarter. See how quickly you become the new sheriff in town and how fast other CEO’s quit buying ads. See how fast FOX changes content. All they care about is $. Oh - and next generation FOX CEO will be a decent human being if you do this.
Execution details matter. Talk to me. See Target, Bud Light and Tesla for examples. Companies are people, not paper. Make it personal.
Steve, I sincerely feel for the demographic you mention. They've been so skillfully manipulated, primarily, by Murdoch, Ailes and Limbaugh. Yet, what is alarming me more is the number of those, who have been educated in how to analyze an argument, end up supporting and parroting so many untruths and doing it with the sneering veneer of their false rightness. I think they have gotten suffocated from their news source constantly flooding the zone with fake attacks.
I get you, John. Some understand fully what is happening and they like it. In every human mind is heaven and hell. We are the angels and we are the demons. We make the choice moment by moment every day.
It's so tempting to say to MAGAs, FAFO, you should have known. reap what you sow. I've done it myself, generally on WAPO comments. This gives me pause. Perhaps there is a way of reaching some of them. The thing is, most of them are rude and insulting and it's hard to get past that.
this requires knowledge of our self. What stops us from staying in the conversation? Trump relies on violence. Steve Bannen gets louder and louder. Steven Miller is a cartoon character. How do we stay in the fear? I think one of the more interesting things that has been revealed is listening to our diplomats who deal with different worldviews for a living. They don't get afraid. They don't get mad. They don't leave either!
I just viewed an excellent chat on how best to react a narcissist. First step- recognizing you are dealing with one. Step two/ recognize your goal is not to persuade, but calmly set clear boundaries that they cannot manipulate you (it infuriates them).
“I see what you are doing” (narcissistic folks are insecure, always trying to prove they are great, to you, to themselves. They are scared when you really see them for what they are).
Yes, but the average MAGA isn't a narcissist so that doesn't apply. The ones I've interacted with are generally functionally illiterate and respond to facts with rudeness and personal insults. It's impossible to have a rational, civil conversation with someone like that.
When my husband and I met you at the end of the evening at your book signing, I regret not asking you to go for a beer after. I have worked with Country1st since its inception and all I talked about was the commonality you and my husband had as officers in the military.
I would work for you in a heartbeat when it comes to gathering information in these echo spears we live in. We research and analyze it daily.
I too have an entire family of Trump supporters. I am the mislead sister/aunty who they love dearly but tolerate when it comes to politics. But I see it in their eyes and hearts that they know the bullying and cruelty are not something they believe is right. I’m slowly, very slowly chipping away at this armor each side puts up to find truth and understanding of our views. It’s all about finding that middle ground to begin conversations.
It's so sad. I was thinking, Adam, it's got to be so hard, knowing the irrefutable facts about Trump's involvement with January 6 and you still have friends that choose him over your facts
I meant "I"research it daily. I find the psychology behind a party to cause people to have mental clarity very interesting. I am in your shoes as to family/friends choosing Trump over me. But I will not stop sharing your messages. Keep up the great work
My husband is not MAGA but I doubt he voted for Kamala Harris. He's more of a libertarian. We've been married for 37 years and never had problems with political differences until Trump was elected in 2016. Whenever we have discussions about abuses of the Trump administration, he brings up Joe Biden's corruption - not about when he was President (or even VP) but how he amassed wealth during his decades in the Senate. I don't want to defend corruption at any level, but I don't think there is even a comparison between Biden's increase in personal wealth and what is going on with Trump's level of criminal theft taking advantage of the presidency now. I can't comment on what Biden or any other Democrat did but I am certain he is right that some of it is not entirely ethical. But then I get very upset and disengage which is not helpful. What should I say?
Here’s what you can say. Biden did not amass personal wealth other than investing in the market, which he had no control over. While he certainly had a competent financial advisor, so do millions of other people. There's nothing “illicit” about that. Intelligent investors have done quite well over the last 10-15 years.
Hunter Biden had no more financial leverage or political influence over his father than I did. Other people might foolishly have believed otherwise, but that doesn’t make it so.
Joe Biden isn’t the 34-times convicted for fraud felon whose entire reason for existence revolves around: “I want you to do something for me first.”
If it helps you, the other day I listened to an interview between Sam Harris and Dan Carlin, whom I have followed for years. To your point, Dan Carlin said that the transgressions are not new, ehat is new is the RATE at which these transgressions are being executed, and that the person who is committing these transgressions at an unprecedented rate has his finger on the nuclear button. Maybe I am simplifying his argument too much, but that was the gist of it if I understood correctly.
To say this was insightful and informative would be an understatement. I appreciate that you brought this on your program bc otherwise I’m not sure in my information echo chamber I would have randomly happened on this pov. As always - TY Adam
Thank you - I just listened to that myself and agree. It was terrific. I’ll have to listen to that section again and take notes so I have something prepared as a response!
Or maybe just share with him the Common Sense podcast Dan Carlin had out a few months ago regarding how we have been ceding more and more power to the executive branch, and what that means.
Adam, I commend you for these interviews, though I find them extremely difficult and unpleasant to watch.
For me, they reinforce my sense that this is a cult of lost souls — some truly malicious, some not — but all without much of an inner life (to say nothing of an education) which could have protected them from its clutches. And clearly, 100 times more difficult to get out of than join in the first place.
Facinating conversation. Helps me understand in a deeper way the cult mentality. I will forgive the people iin my own life when they truly are out, but never forgive the politians, billionaires, and his other cronies for having the ability to stop this, but didn't use their power to do so.
It seems to me that when you see that your country is being removed from its democratic system and that rule of law is being completely ignored, that it would be a pretty easy decision to leave MAGA. We have reached a point now where it is so apparent that this administration is a con, that no one should need empathy to get the hell out.
But the point here, I think, is that a lot of MAGAs simply don't know that this is happening. I would contend, though, that many of them know and don't care.
Great interview, Adam. I'd love to hear more from ex-MAGA on this and other podcasts. I welcome anyone who leaves MAGA. Joe Walsh always talks about having a big tent. I, too, don't believe in shaming people who come to the realization that they believed the lies. Brainwashing is real, and when lies are repeated frequently, especially when there is a grain of truth, people will eventually believe them. This was a big factor in Germany with the Holocaust. Many people just vote for the same Party there parents did, or they chose a Party and vote for only those from that Party. It's just easier. We need to incorporate explicit teaching about Democracy in schools; I learned that the checks and balances would hold. We need to teach that Democracy is fragile and must be monitored. We have all become to complacent.
In George Washington's Farewell Address, almost 230 years ago, he discussed how "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men" could exploit Parties for their own gain and create an unjust power. Through this they could easily manipulate and subvert popular rules to destroy the Constitution. He feared that "unchecked partisanship" could lead to one individual or group seeking absolute power. Let's hope that it is not too late to fend off an eventual takeover and total subversion of our democratic republic.
I’ll continue to watch, but I’m only a 1/4 of the way into this video, and I already feel like there is no way back to anything normal, for me. I’ve put up walls to the absurd thinking of MAGA. I’m not saying I can’t re-kindle relationships I previously had with MAGA friends if they want to step away from the MAGA circus, but I can’t be the one to purse them. The mental anguish this cult has caused to me personally is much like permanent damage to skin after a really bad sunburn. It may heal to a degree, but the scars are permanent. I’ve stopped going to class reunions and I dread going to family reunions. I have never felt so isolated in my entire life.
I just turned 65 and elected to have Medicare A&B only to learn now that road blocks are being put on us to receive Covid vaccinations. I’m in Georgia and according to my pharmacies, they are requiring prescriptions. I saw on the news that a woman had to pay over $200 out of pocket for her vaccination because Medicare did not cover it. This is very depressing and disturbing.
So I’ll go ahead and restart the play button on this video. Maybe I’ll gain some comfort towards the end.
I have family & friends who choose to support Trump for their one issue that is important to them and ignore all the other crap. To me this is a moral and an ethical character flaw in them. They do go to Fox propaganda by choice because it reinforces their willingness to cherry pick their grievances and find justification for their actions. It’s really hard for me to be tolerant of them as the horror of Trump’s agenda plays out and destroys our country.
I’m gonna crash this out! For over a decade I’ve been the patient, understanding and tolerant one in the name of family and friend connected relationships.
This has been the weirdest year, but at the same time I know it’s because I stopped being a quiet mouse. I own that. I never attacked anyone, but I think pushing back just revealed the relationships were on sinking sand and ‘fake’. It’s been hurtful. Right now I am in the angry phase. We also left our church because we were quiet there and almost all members are Christian Nationalist MAGAs. We hung on because of our faith, but I couldn’t take it anymore.
Our lives have been entangled with those so angry all the time. They ‘won’ and have been nastier than ever or at least racist or discriminatory out loud. I really connected to the fact that there are those making a lot of money keeping them upset.
Anyway, I’m not ready for any reconciliation. I can promise you, none of them are to that point either. They’re clinging to that identity over everything.
Megan, I also have found the MAGAs in my world to be very angry. I don't understand it. They came from privileged families ( by no means wealthy, but always had everything they needed and then some), had good job opportunities and successful careers as well as white male privelege in those careers, and are in very comfortable retirements. Where is all the anger coming from?
Daily on Fox they are told to stay angry or get more angry! My family is the same, but we struggled financially with a single mom and then have been successful and comfortable as adults. My single mom, who needed government cheese, butter and milk in the 70s - is a maga and wants hand outs to stop. I mean, really? If I press her, it’s the illegals and lazy people gaming the system. They’re told that weekly on Fox too. I still talk to her because she’s my mom - but we can’t talk politics at all. They all agree - her and my siblings - so I’m out of the club! 😶🌫️ I always was though all these years, but I kept hanging on.
This is one of the best podcasts I have listened to on this topic — such good insight and advice. I have now just upgraded my subscription and have started sharing it with friends, along with Rich’s website. Have also downloaded the ebook there. I am so very grateful to you both.
I agree with everything you say. My sister is not maga but she listen to right media including the right wing Catholic Church Not the New Pope. She believes like you say well,the other side did it or does it. I explain to her that if mother and her family came here today as legal immigrants. They would be arrested when they went to their legal court date. I told her mother would have been arrested. Trump lied and he is arresting legal immigrants . That made her stop and say really? That worked for her.
Adam, we chose where we get our information. Many have not had an education in how to analyze sources and think critically. This is why attacks on education are so dangerous.
Amen
If you believe as we do that MAGA fails without FOX and that destroying honest media like PBS makes it even worse defund the FOX rage and hate machine.
Eviscerate FOX with an indirect strategy that works fast. Deny FOX ad $ by denying the ad buying company CEO and execs bonuses. For example Home Depot. Boycott them for a full fiscal quarter and maybe more while keeping Wall Street analysts apprised. Get all on line influencers to post every day for the entire time ending every post every day with “Don’t forget - boycott Home Depot, they fund the FOX rage and hate machine.” See how fast CEO’s stop buying ads - do only ONE brand - do it implacably for an entire fiscal quarter. See how quickly you become the new sheriff in town and how fast other CEO’s quit buying ads. See how fast FOX changes content. All they care about is $. Oh - and next generation FOX CEO will be a decent human being if you do this.
Execution details matter. Talk to me. See Target, Bud Light and Tesla for examples. Companies are people, not paper. Make it personal.
This is very smart analysis...and points to the fragmented nature of the opposition to Trump and MAGA. Somehow critical mass must be mobilized and applied more strategically. Fewer, but much bigger, protests and marches. Fewer, but much more focused and sustained boycotts on brands that are enabling this nightmare. I fear that it's the absence of a single, charismatic opposition leader to consolidate these sorts of efforts that is preventing us from getting more traction.
Thanks Jordan. You are exactly right. We need a dynamic coordinator who will help our major influencers to achieve what mass action can do strategically. It’s utterly disappointing that the DNC isn’t that organization.
I was just thinking the same thing. MAGA has access to all the same information as everyone else. They CHOOSE not to pay attention.
I had offered people sources - credible, verified, reputable sources - many times, and they rejected them because it disagreed with their narrative. I heard phrases like, "I am not interested in your nonsense data!" and "Who cares what these woke scientists say?" and "Fake news!" and "Libtard media!" a lot of times. The information was offered to them on a silver platter - and they chose to reject it.
That is a choice. A conscious choice. It's not because they are locked up somewhere in the tower without any other means to inform themselves. They CHOOSE not to.
Not only that - but they have zero problem with something, as long as it causes other people to suffer, but leaves them unscathed. They only pause and start paying attention when something happens to them. They knew trans kids were going to suffer, they knew immigrants were going to suffer, they knew women denied reproductive care were going to suffer - they were fine with it. When this was pointed out to them, they said, "Serves them right!" Nobody forced them to say that. Nobody forced them to think that. That's on them. So now, suddenly, they are having problems with Trump's policies, and they care? That doesn't make them victims - that makes them selfish. Because this means that, had nothing happened to them, personally, they would have continued being alright with the suffering of other people.
Just so, Maria. Trump knows a secret about people. He calls out to the beast in each person and some of those beasts answer, "YES!". Jung saw this same phenomenon in the lead up to WWII.
My maternal grandmother was a Holocaust survivor - she and her elder brother the only ones to survive out of a family of eight. Two more grandparents survived the Siege of Leningrad - the horrific famine. Those who initiated both also said, "We didn't know" and "we were just following orders".
Later, growing up Soviet, I was constantly bullied and beaten because I was a product of a multi-national family - not a Russian national. The children had an excuse - they were children and learned this from their parents. But what was their parents' excuse to teach them this behavior? Yeah... they too said they didn't know and this was just a joke... That is why I am skeptical.
Marie, I think Ted Koppel said it best:
"FOX attracts those who think Ideology is more important than facts"
Yes... Which means... the THINKING is already there. Their mind is already in that state. So, they go for something that works with what they already believe.
Exactly, Maria. Once one is deeply entrenched in their beliefs (usually a combination of the righteousness of their beliefs and the scorn of those who believe differently.) At this point is too easy to just look for and listen to those who will confirm your own bias. This is a vulnerability that all of us have when deciding what we believe to be right. However, there's been a significantly more concentrated effort on the right-wing media to exploit this and the consequences are what we are the deep divisions that result in violence.
You come from strong stock then. May we not be visited with more of the pestilence they, and you, survived.
Maria, I spent time in the Soviet Union and in the post-Soviet countries as well. You’ll remember one of Tolstoy’s short stories (I think it was his) about the sinful, self-centered peasant who did something virtuous (I don’t remember what), was visited by God and told he would be rewarded by being granted just one wish. “But remember,” says God, “whatever you wish for I will give to your neighbor double.”
The twisted peasant thinks for a minute, then finally says: “put out one of my eyes.”
The world is filled with MAGAS — those who cannot stand the idea of the “other” succeeding, viewing life as nothing but a brutish zero-sum game in which they must be on top, demanding their neighbors be blinded so they can be better.
I remember my many Russian, Jewish, Ukrainian, Armenian friends. They were forbidden to read information outside that Soviet bubble. Fox News addicts have a choice to read the New York Times — or read anything or travel anywhere they want, yet they choose not to do it. This I can never get, never sympathize with.
It wasn't written by Tolstoy - it was a folk tale he recorded. But yes, it's very much like that with MAGA.
And yes, you are correct - we struggled all the time with the propaganda and lack of information from the outside. The brain-washing was in full swing. The grooming of children was commonplace. And yet... even then... people made their choices.
The reason I know that was because my parents were among the dissident intellectuals. They asked me regularly what I was taught at school and then told me why it may not have been true. They used whatever connections they had to get blacklisted books and distribute them. I remember this one time when one of the BARELY legal magazines published "The Master and Margarita" - chapter by chapter. My maternal grandfather - a highly decorated WWII veteran - subscribed to the magazine because we knew he would be above suspicion due to his reputation. He then collected all the issues and extracted the pages with the chapters. Then passed them on to my mild, god-fearing paternal grandmother who had a typewriter and used to be a professional typist. She used the pages from the magazine to make multiple copies of the book. Then the finished copies went back to grandpa, who had learned book binding and bound them into volumes with discreet-looking covers to pas on to people who wanted them. This kind of thing went on for YEARS.
Did we know all of the truth? No. But did we question our reality? Yes. It was a choice. There is always a choice.
Wonderful recollection. Thank you, Maria.
I’ve seen this phenomenon among my Republican, specifically, friends. Exactly where they get their information puzzles me because it’s so limited, so narrow. You’re right Maria; they do have a choice to pursue information, learn about issues, but instead I think they just hear (only) what they want and have no curiosity about anything more. Our minds work differently.
If you believe as we do that MAGA fails without FOX and that destroying honest media like PBS makes it even worse defund the FOX rage and hate machine.
Eviscerate FOX with an indirect strategy that works fast. Deny FOX ad $ by denying the ad buying company CEO and execs bonuses. For example Home Depot. Boycott them for a full fiscal quarter and maybe more while keeping Wall Street analysts apprised. Get all on line influencers to post every day for the entire time ending every post every day with “Don’t forget - boycott Home Depot, they fund the FOX rage and hate machine.” See how fast CEO’s stop buying ads - do only ONE brand - do it implacably for an entire fiscal quarter. See how quickly you become the new sheriff in town and how fast other CEO’s quit buying ads. See how fast FOX changes content. All they care about is $. Oh - and next generation FOX CEO will be a decent human being if you do this.
Execution details matter. Talk to me. See Target, Bud Light and Tesla for examples. Companies are people, not paper. Make it personal.
Steve, I sincerely feel for the demographic you mention. They've been so skillfully manipulated, primarily, by Murdoch, Ailes and Limbaugh. Yet, what is alarming me more is the number of those, who have been educated in how to analyze an argument, end up supporting and parroting so many untruths and doing it with the sneering veneer of their false rightness. I think they have gotten suffocated from their news source constantly flooding the zone with fake attacks.
I get you, John. Some understand fully what is happening and they like it. In every human mind is heaven and hell. We are the angels and we are the demons. We make the choice moment by moment every day.
lol . . relies on ignorance
It's so tempting to say to MAGAs, FAFO, you should have known. reap what you sow. I've done it myself, generally on WAPO comments. This gives me pause. Perhaps there is a way of reaching some of them. The thing is, most of them are rude and insulting and it's hard to get past that.
this requires knowledge of our self. What stops us from staying in the conversation? Trump relies on violence. Steve Bannen gets louder and louder. Steven Miller is a cartoon character. How do we stay in the fear? I think one of the more interesting things that has been revealed is listening to our diplomats who deal with different worldviews for a living. They don't get afraid. They don't get mad. They don't leave either!
Good point about diplomats.
I just viewed an excellent chat on how best to react a narcissist. First step- recognizing you are dealing with one. Step two/ recognize your goal is not to persuade, but calmly set clear boundaries that they cannot manipulate you (it infuriates them).
“I see what you are doing” (narcissistic folks are insecure, always trying to prove they are great, to you, to themselves. They are scared when you really see them for what they are).
“Your feelings about that are not my problem “
“I won’t be spoken to that way”.
Yes, but the average MAGA isn't a narcissist so that doesn't apply. The ones I've interacted with are generally functionally illiterate and respond to facts with rudeness and personal insults. It's impossible to have a rational, civil conversation with someone like that.
not impossible, but tedious. We want instant gratification. Not going to happen. It will be a long slow slog.
Unfortunately, I have noticed that many of those trying to "reach MAGA" on social media are equally rude and insulting.
I have witnessed many saying that Democrats are evil. We can thank Roger Stone, Trump and friends for that disinformation megaphone
Yep. 30 years of right wing media
When my husband and I met you at the end of the evening at your book signing, I regret not asking you to go for a beer after. I have worked with Country1st since its inception and all I talked about was the commonality you and my husband had as officers in the military.
I would work for you in a heartbeat when it comes to gathering information in these echo spears we live in. We research and analyze it daily.
I actually remember that!
I too have an entire family of Trump supporters. I am the mislead sister/aunty who they love dearly but tolerate when it comes to politics. But I see it in their eyes and hearts that they know the bullying and cruelty are not something they believe is right. I’m slowly, very slowly chipping away at this armor each side puts up to find truth and understanding of our views. It’s all about finding that middle ground to begin conversations.
It's so sad. I was thinking, Adam, it's got to be so hard, knowing the irrefutable facts about Trump's involvement with January 6 and you still have friends that choose him over your facts
I meant "I"research it daily. I find the psychology behind a party to cause people to have mental clarity very interesting. I am in your shoes as to family/friends choosing Trump over me. But I will not stop sharing your messages. Keep up the great work
🇺🇸❤️🇺🇸
I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of Logis, his insights and sharing about the MAGA world. Great interview, Adam, and very much appreciated.
My husband is not MAGA but I doubt he voted for Kamala Harris. He's more of a libertarian. We've been married for 37 years and never had problems with political differences until Trump was elected in 2016. Whenever we have discussions about abuses of the Trump administration, he brings up Joe Biden's corruption - not about when he was President (or even VP) but how he amassed wealth during his decades in the Senate. I don't want to defend corruption at any level, but I don't think there is even a comparison between Biden's increase in personal wealth and what is going on with Trump's level of criminal theft taking advantage of the presidency now. I can't comment on what Biden or any other Democrat did but I am certain he is right that some of it is not entirely ethical. But then I get very upset and disengage which is not helpful. What should I say?
Here’s what you can say. Biden did not amass personal wealth other than investing in the market, which he had no control over. While he certainly had a competent financial advisor, so do millions of other people. There's nothing “illicit” about that. Intelligent investors have done quite well over the last 10-15 years.
Hunter Biden had no more financial leverage or political influence over his father than I did. Other people might foolishly have believed otherwise, but that doesn’t make it so.
Joe Biden isn’t the 34-times convicted for fraud felon whose entire reason for existence revolves around: “I want you to do something for me first.”
Good luck.
Thank you - I really needed some specifics like those you’ve provided!
What is illicit is that all politicians have insider investment information that you and I don’t have, otherwise we’d all be millionaires.
You just blurred a point with pointless misinformation. “They're all crooks” isn’t just wrong, it’s laziness on wheels.
If it helps you, the other day I listened to an interview between Sam Harris and Dan Carlin, whom I have followed for years. To your point, Dan Carlin said that the transgressions are not new, ehat is new is the RATE at which these transgressions are being executed, and that the person who is committing these transgressions at an unprecedented rate has his finger on the nuclear button. Maybe I am simplifying his argument too much, but that was the gist of it if I understood correctly.
To say this was insightful and informative would be an understatement. I appreciate that you brought this on your program bc otherwise I’m not sure in my information echo chamber I would have randomly happened on this pov. As always - TY Adam
Thank you - I just listened to that myself and agree. It was terrific. I’ll have to listen to that section again and take notes so I have something prepared as a response!
Or maybe just share with him the Common Sense podcast Dan Carlin had out a few months ago regarding how we have been ceding more and more power to the executive branch, and what that means.
Same here. This my experience with family.
Adam, I commend you for these interviews, though I find them extremely difficult and unpleasant to watch.
For me, they reinforce my sense that this is a cult of lost souls — some truly malicious, some not — but all without much of an inner life (to say nothing of an education) which could have protected them from its clutches. And clearly, 100 times more difficult to get out of than join in the first place.
Facinating conversation. Helps me understand in a deeper way the cult mentality. I will forgive the people iin my own life when they truly are out, but never forgive the politians, billionaires, and his other cronies for having the ability to stop this, but didn't use their power to do so.
It seems to me that when you see that your country is being removed from its democratic system and that rule of law is being completely ignored, that it would be a pretty easy decision to leave MAGA. We have reached a point now where it is so apparent that this administration is a con, that no one should need empathy to get the hell out.
But the point here, I think, is that a lot of MAGAs simply don't know that this is happening. I would contend, though, that many of them know and don't care.
Great interview, Adam. I'd love to hear more from ex-MAGA on this and other podcasts. I welcome anyone who leaves MAGA. Joe Walsh always talks about having a big tent. I, too, don't believe in shaming people who come to the realization that they believed the lies. Brainwashing is real, and when lies are repeated frequently, especially when there is a grain of truth, people will eventually believe them. This was a big factor in Germany with the Holocaust. Many people just vote for the same Party there parents did, or they chose a Party and vote for only those from that Party. It's just easier. We need to incorporate explicit teaching about Democracy in schools; I learned that the checks and balances would hold. We need to teach that Democracy is fragile and must be monitored. We have all become to complacent.
In George Washington's Farewell Address, almost 230 years ago, he discussed how "cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men" could exploit Parties for their own gain and create an unjust power. Through this they could easily manipulate and subvert popular rules to destroy the Constitution. He feared that "unchecked partisanship" could lead to one individual or group seeking absolute power. Let's hope that it is not too late to fend off an eventual takeover and total subversion of our democratic republic.
I’ll continue to watch, but I’m only a 1/4 of the way into this video, and I already feel like there is no way back to anything normal, for me. I’ve put up walls to the absurd thinking of MAGA. I’m not saying I can’t re-kindle relationships I previously had with MAGA friends if they want to step away from the MAGA circus, but I can’t be the one to purse them. The mental anguish this cult has caused to me personally is much like permanent damage to skin after a really bad sunburn. It may heal to a degree, but the scars are permanent. I’ve stopped going to class reunions and I dread going to family reunions. I have never felt so isolated in my entire life.
I just turned 65 and elected to have Medicare A&B only to learn now that road blocks are being put on us to receive Covid vaccinations. I’m in Georgia and according to my pharmacies, they are requiring prescriptions. I saw on the news that a woman had to pay over $200 out of pocket for her vaccination because Medicare did not cover it. This is very depressing and disturbing.
So I’ll go ahead and restart the play button on this video. Maybe I’ll gain some comfort towards the end.
This sure feels like the stuff of alcoholic or religious cult interventions.
I have family & friends who choose to support Trump for their one issue that is important to them and ignore all the other crap. To me this is a moral and an ethical character flaw in them. They do go to Fox propaganda by choice because it reinforces their willingness to cherry pick their grievances and find justification for their actions. It’s really hard for me to be tolerant of them as the horror of Trump’s agenda plays out and destroys our country.
Well said. I agree.
I’m gonna crash this out! For over a decade I’ve been the patient, understanding and tolerant one in the name of family and friend connected relationships.
This has been the weirdest year, but at the same time I know it’s because I stopped being a quiet mouse. I own that. I never attacked anyone, but I think pushing back just revealed the relationships were on sinking sand and ‘fake’. It’s been hurtful. Right now I am in the angry phase. We also left our church because we were quiet there and almost all members are Christian Nationalist MAGAs. We hung on because of our faith, but I couldn’t take it anymore.
Our lives have been entangled with those so angry all the time. They ‘won’ and have been nastier than ever or at least racist or discriminatory out loud. I really connected to the fact that there are those making a lot of money keeping them upset.
Anyway, I’m not ready for any reconciliation. I can promise you, none of them are to that point either. They’re clinging to that identity over everything.
Megan, I also have found the MAGAs in my world to be very angry. I don't understand it. They came from privileged families ( by no means wealthy, but always had everything they needed and then some), had good job opportunities and successful careers as well as white male privelege in those careers, and are in very comfortable retirements. Where is all the anger coming from?
Daily on Fox they are told to stay angry or get more angry! My family is the same, but we struggled financially with a single mom and then have been successful and comfortable as adults. My single mom, who needed government cheese, butter and milk in the 70s - is a maga and wants hand outs to stop. I mean, really? If I press her, it’s the illegals and lazy people gaming the system. They’re told that weekly on Fox too. I still talk to her because she’s my mom - but we can’t talk politics at all. They all agree - her and my siblings - so I’m out of the club! 😶🌫️ I always was though all these years, but I kept hanging on.
But you are in OUR club, so you are not alone!
This was an EXCELLENT conversation. Thank you to both of you for the thoughtful dialogue and the hard work you both do!
This is one of the best podcasts I have listened to on this topic — such good insight and advice. I have now just upgraded my subscription and have started sharing it with friends, along with Rich’s website. Have also downloaded the ebook there. I am so very grateful to you both.
I agree with everything you say. My sister is not maga but she listen to right media including the right wing Catholic Church Not the New Pope. She believes like you say well,the other side did it or does it. I explain to her that if mother and her family came here today as legal immigrants. They would be arrested when they went to their legal court date. I told her mother would have been arrested. Trump lied and he is arresting legal immigrants . That made her stop and say really? That worked for her.